119 Comments so far

Anonymous on July 20, 2007 4:04 pm

1. In the words of Donna Sommer:

   He works hard for the money,
   So hard for it honey,
   He works hard for the money,
   So you better treat him right.

anonymous on July 20, 2007 4:06 pm

2. OK, here we go!! Did anyone besides me notice the red ink in the school budget? To the tune of almost $1.2mil.! How is that going to be paid?
   When is the next vote and what are the details?
   Do we just get 2weeks notice and no information and are supposed to make an informed decision as always?
   Where is the site?
   Is it a different one or the same one guaranteed to be defeated?
   It’s totally strange to me how some important school board meetings with broad scopes of subjects can only last minutes. They should be taking hours or else it tells me the decisions are already done ahead of time and the bulk of the board just shakes their collective head YES!
   As a matter of fact, if that is what is happening, I believe that is illegal. It is to be an open, public forum with discussion in that manner, not behind closed doors and the topics merely voted on with decisions already made.
   I would appreciate some information from anyone caring to chime in.
   If a vote is going to be 6 months after march 27th then that really isn’t that far off!
   One last question—who amongst you got a 4.75 or 4.8% raise??
   Oh, that’s right, the teachers did!
   Way to go board and then have red ink on the balance sheet!!
   Do I hear new board members?
   Sure hoping so!!

anonymous on July 20, 2007 5:52 pm

3. The red ink resulted from borrowing against the LOST/SILO taxes and I would assume it was to upgrade the Redfield site. I found this to be disturbing since both of those taxes can be voted to be discontinued and I think they only last for a certain amount of years. Yes, then how is it going to be paid. As far as the increase in wages, apparently our school board feels a school superintendent who writes e-mails, and letters to the editor and is pejorative in his discription of some of those who pay his salary is o.k. Even used some of those same derogatory language to the Iowa ombudsman and stated he wasn’t sorry, but may have been more cafeful had he known it might become public. What a wonderful leader of our children.!

4:06 on July 20, 2007 6:02 pm

4. Please fill me in further 5:52 about the good supt. I don’t have knowledge of what you are saying about emails, and the ombudsman and it becoming public. I understand about the LOST/SILO monies but the negative balance came from salary increases according to the limited line item budget published.

4:06 on July 20, 2007 6:04 pm

5. My point of the negative balance coming from salaries was that the salary increase more than covered the red ink. Sorry for my misspeak.

anonymous on July 20, 2007 10:21 pm

6. A lot of people don’t have the knowledge of the e-mails, because they became “public” (supt words) by the mere fact that some people other than the recipient viewed them. Ask your school board representative and if he/she is honest about it they will let you know. They have all been reprimanded and as they are working for the taxpayers they should have no problem answering a direct question. You surely did read the letter to the editor by our superintendent. And he is the reason the school board received their hands be slapped. As far as the negative balance it is in the minutes of the board meeting and as soon as their new website comes full circle I can give you the date to look under. I could also go through all my newspapers, but time does not allow. There was a public meeting on this and yet many people are not aware of it. Back around beginning of year or end of last i think.

Anonymous on July 21, 2007 12:08 am

7. blah blah blah… do we REALLY need to start this now?

anonymous on July 21, 2007 7:02 am

8. 12:08 it was started a long time ago, but for all those who want just keep your blinders on and follow the other horses down the track. As far a comments here, I will not make anymore, but the question was asked and I happen to have some of the information.

pragmatist on July 21, 2007 7:19 am

9. yeah 12:08 why not start it now? What do you want to do hide it? I heard about the newspaper article, but didn’t read it or about the ombudsman. Don’t start the blah, blah, blah stuff. It shows your IQ!

Anonymous on July 21, 2007 10:39 am

10. Shut up pragmatist, you conspiracy theory assuming/”if your not with me your against me” idiot. I don’t like the school talk now because we went through so much of it not that long ago. I’m burnt out and tired of it. How couldn’t I or anyone else be? It was pretty much a war between the yes and no people. Why not let everyone enjoy the last month of summer before starting all this school crap again? And “blah blah blah” is what I see when I read it because it all just blurs together and I don’t bother reading the rest. Sad? Maybe… but true.

    And what the hell does “What do you want to do hide it?” mean? How would I have anything to hide? You don’t know me. Stop making an ass out of yourself and jumping to wild/false assumptions. Plus, it shows your IQ. Idiot.

Anonymous on July 21, 2007 10:43 am

11. Oh, and in regards to the “What do you want to do hide it?” sentence: try using proper punctuation please. It should be something like: What do you want to do, hide it?

pragmatist on July 21, 2007 11:54 am

12. See nothing has changed!! OH sorry about lack of commas!! Keep talking anonymous, you’re the one showing true colors and lack of any open-mindedness. If you don’t like what I said don’t read it, when I post. As mentioned, nothing has changed!! I asked some questions and get your rhetoric just as before! Why not try a name it’s anonymous too? Well, guess not really a good indicator though since anyone else can use mine now and pretend to be me. If punctuation is your forte then is your name Joan? Sorry for my lack of grammatical correctness in an informal blog!! Oh, and name calling doesn’t bother me it just adds to your lack of credibility and capability to express yourself.

pragmatist on July 21, 2007 11:59 am

13. 10:43 you still cypherin? Just FYI and BTW and WTF. If the next bond comes as identical and at the same site as the last one, I intend to do everything in my power to see it defeated as well as the past 6 have been. If it comes in realistic and at a different site in Stuart then I will work just as hard to see it pass. In the words of the great Tyler, have a splendid day!!

anonymity plus on July 21, 2007 3:24 pm

14. Oh pragmatist, leave the poor guy alone. He has so many important things to get done before school starts. The truth will come out on all the subjects. Watch very closely in the coming months.

Anonymous on July 21, 2007 10:27 pm

15. Oh praggy… you aren’t worth the time. Why are you trying to start an argument? So you did everything in your power to see the last bond defeated? Interesting. So would you name be one of those who contributed to hiring the bond buster? That alone makes me not even care what you say. And, to CORRECTLY quote Tyler, “Have a quality evening!”

Anonymous on July 21, 2007 10:29 pm

16. what are you meaning by what you said anonymity plus?

Anonymous on July 21, 2007 10:33 pm

17. anonymity plus can you at least tell us what important things the guy has to do and what you mean by the truth will come out on all subjects? what all subjects are you talking about anonymity plus?

pragmatist on July 22, 2007 9:35 am

18. 10:27 Sorry to burst your bubble, but i wasn’t a contributer to anything. In fact, I wasn’t active at all in the last bond issue vote, but plan on being this time if it is the same thing! I have one vote like everyone else and a right to my opinion just like you. And who’s trying to start an argument? I just asked some simple questions. Some rhetorical and you go ballistic. Makes me wonder if something is being hidden! And please get off your Correctness pedestal. If I wanted to be graded I would go back to school. Oh, but then I would get a second chance to retake the test! Can’t have the students with low self-esteem ya know? I’m far from perfect as you evidently consider yourself to be! And I don’t plan on perusing my post to see if every little letter is in it’s right place.

pragmatist on July 22, 2007 9:39 am

19. 10:27 it just hit me! I’m slow ya know!! You must be a hardcore blog poster to know so much about Tyler’s CORRECT sayings and to chastise me about my punctuation, etc. Do I scare you or what? I’m harmless, stop worrying about me and being so anal. That can get ya into problems in many ways, just FYI!

Anonymous on July 23, 2007 4:34 pm

20. The plan won’t be the same as last time. If it were, those guys are dumber that I thought. However, the site will be the same. The logistics and economics very simply say so. Time for a little common sense this go round, and make it happen for all of us. When any district votes to improve their school system, everyone wins, no matter where they live. All things prosper and grow. Kids, this thing is vital at this point. No time for games. We will miss the boat if we keep this up. The clock is ticking for WCVS and I think we all know it. Anyone who wants to play big dog in this should be ignored, and those who want to succeed he heard. Don’t argue and spin your wheels, just do the right thing and use your sensible heads, please. We all have it in us if we just get it done.

Anonymous on July 23, 2007 10:57 pm

21. Yes, the clock is ticking while the school board comes up with the same old tired plan. If it’s on the proposed site east of town, count me a NO vote!

pragmatist on July 24, 2007 11:09 am

22. I second,third and fourth that!! I WILL NOT vote for anything on that site!! How plain does it have to be that people don’t want it there? The logistics and economics plainly say it ISN’T so!! Just because the district owns it doesn’t make it a good site. If they come out with the same plan or similar and on THAT site, the bickering last time will seem very tame!! I for one am not going to lay over and be led down some path that is wrong by a PHD who has a mouth larger than all of the district. Plus a temper and the board under his thumb. He is small fry, the site and the cost are the two deciding factors in my mind. Same sight ain’t gonna work without one big messy fight! Then who wins? It will take generations for feelings to get healed. Unfortunately, that’s the way it is. If the plan is for that site, I can’t say it enough, NO will be a bigger margin this time than last! Please explain why it’s logistically and economically the site to use. Forget the fact we already own it. It can be sold and other ground purchased. It’s further from the athletic complex than things are now. It is not flat by any means. A walking path doesn’t protect kids walking to school from the highway that is busy. I and lots of others are already charged and prepared to see that site doesn’t have a school built on it. So please as you said let’s use some common sense! It won’t pass there so get a different site with realistic figures and get started building!! The only site should be in Stuart by the way, I’m not talking anywhere else. Just so somebody’s panties aren’t gettin bunched and thinking that’s what I mean. Did I do OK anonymous puntuation person?

pragmatist on July 24, 2007 11:26 am

23. 4:34 another question for you. How many accidents and injuries to students pulling out on the highway especially after school but catting around before school will it take for you to think this is NOT a good site logistically? This is a highway, not a street.
    The vision isn’t good and just another opportunity for the kids to squeel tires and race. Hey! They’re kids! It’s gonna happen. But it doesn’t have to happen on a major highway!!

Anonymous on July 24, 2007 11:35 am

24. OK, so let’s be constructive and pick some alternative sites. I will say it again, work together. Take the emotion out of it, people. Think of it as a business proposition that makes sense and is affordable and makes the best use of dollars spent, but still is a facility that the entire district can be proud of. You know, everyone’s tax dollars are going into it, and kids and parents and citizens from all the communities can share in the pride of what we could all do if we just keep it business. You know, also, that with all the negative publicity our district has had recently, it would be a great big shot in the arm to have the headlines read “West Central Valley gets it Done”. That means all of us.

pragmatist on July 24, 2007 11:46 am

25. 4:34 another false statement. Sorry to pick on you, but I guess you’re the lucky one today. You say “When any district votes to improve their school system, everyone wins, no matter where they live. All things prosper and grow.” Ummmm, don’t think so!! Ask the Menlo people, ask Redfield people what happened to their business district when the high school left. Oh, it wasn’t the schools’ leaving that did that? What was the cause then? Oh, it was gonna happen anyway, huh? How do you know that for sure? Another quote:
    “Anyone who wants to play big dog in this should be ignored, and those who want to succeed he heard”. Who’s the big dog? Isn’t this a democracy where everyone has a chance to voice their opinion and be heard? I guess not under your guise of shallow do gooder. You want it YOUR way or the highway. Just like before!! Way too transparent for me, I’m afraid.

pragmatist on July 24, 2007 11:48 am

26. And whom is that negative publicity about??
    The one who will present us with the same site and plan as before. Correct??

pragmatist on July 24, 2007 11:53 am

27. My last post for now. Sorry for so many. But there were some alternative sites mentioned after the last vote. I heard nothing about them being discussed or considered. So that tells me the same site is the only one being considered. So NO will be the result. It’s not brain surgery. It’s stubborness and then blaming it on people who rightfully voice their opinion at the ballot box. The emotion can’t be taken out of it when you have a Supt. and board who won’t listen to what the votes are trying to tell them.

maisy on July 24, 2007 2:40 pm

28. I don’t believe it was the sight that burned the last bond issue. The last bond was defeated because it was too much money, and the building they wanted was too large. I read the papers and the opinion letters carefully, and that is what the committe was telling us. The sight itself does have some draw backs, but what other sights are there in Stuart? You want it close to the athletic complex, but someone wrote once that ground was not appropriate to build on. Someone else also said it was too close to the anhydrous. So please let us know what you propose, pragmatist.

pragmatist on July 24, 2007 3:29 pm

29. Maisy I think the last bond issue was burned by a lot of things. The shock of the cost. The site itself. The Supt’s. comments being the three largest. Not being from Stuart I have heard both ways about some old dump south of the athletic fields. Talking to someone who should know, I was told that wasn’t a problem and could be cleaned up. That would be my first choice. South of the athletic complex. It is almost flat. Isolated just right, in my opinion, from major traffic. As mentioned, close to the athletic fields. It looks to be easily a big enough area for building. As I said, I know this will catch flak, because some say that is a contaminated area. If that area is that contaminated then Stuart has really big problems needing to be dealt with. I’m sure the DNR would have made them clean it up by now especially being in town as it is. That’s my idea. I still stand by the belief that the site is the big drawback. The building can be downsized and cheapened up I truly believe. On another tangent, going back to my first post, I’m not at all happy with the board and the budget. They seem to spend money like drunken sailors and I just have to believe that was part of the huge cost they came up with for a new building last go round. I hate the site that has been voted on. It’s dangerous being right on the highway, not level, requiring over $600,000 in dirt work if I remember right. Also, further away from the athletic complex than now. If it passes at that site, how will you feel when the first accident occurs on the highway between student/highway vehicle or student/student? Then how will you feel if a fatality occurs? How will you feel when a child wanders off the walking path into traffic? Certain times of the year the Sun is going to be in driver’s eyes going and coming. I always thought a safe environment for our kids was top priority. Safe to me means just what I talked about as well as in the building. But it doesn’t seem to matter to those pushing this site come H**l or highwater. You can’t tell me there isn’t a better site in the whole town of Stuart. You can, but I’m not buying into it.

what ?? on July 24, 2007 7:43 pm

30. The last bond issue for a high school location was and continues to be the answer to WCV problems. Where in any plans has it shown the the students would be right on the highway without alternative access? If you would just turn at All Saints Drive in Stuart you would see for yourself the available alternate street available beside the highway. Many other communities have schools near main roads….. that is the attraction!! Have you ever driven around and around a town just trying to locate a competing school. The land just south of the athletic field was studied and is not the answer for a High School location. And what about that safe school?? NO Voters have consistently turned down the opportunity for safe schools. When they have denied our children the safety of new schools as opposed to Menlo’s fire trap, Redfield’s fire, mold and mildew hazard they are really the ones to blame for the backsliding of education.

sat on July 24, 2007 10:16 pm

31. okay 7:43 tell me about Menlos fire trap. I am so tired of all you Stuartites trying to put down that building, especially the old part, when it is by far the best part of the whole school district. You have tried since you joined Menlo to get rid of it, but you still want their money. If you really want to know about the fire danger it is the teachers putting all the paper crap on the walls in the hallway and blocking the egress windows which the fire marshal said was a no-no. They are not going to cook there anymore and the furnace is outside the building. Are your kids or you going to play with matches? Everybody is telling so many lies about everything, and the administration now and over the years has made a concerted effort to let things deteriorate. If you or I were to deface or damage school property we would be fined, jailed or whatever. Yet the ones we entrust the taxpayer owned property can damage and let self destruct without any consequences. I hope Stuart never gets a new school near their town.

Anonymous on July 24, 2007 11:57 pm

32. Menlo’s fire trap = the lunchroom

sat on July 25, 2007 6:10 am

33. Why the lunchroom? Details please.

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 7:09 am

34. 7:43 Ahhh, now the comments from the “big dogs”, those who have blinders on and only one vision and location and will accept nothing else. Where is the walking path going to be or is that privy info. to only you few? Is there going to be a fence to keep kids from acting out or chasing a rabbit or finding a can or something else thrown out along the road? Why was it asked for permission to put the walking path on school property? Where did I say it would “right on the highway”? Horseplay happens and thinking is forgotten and could put kids in danger or traffic. I totally disagree that it is ANY kind of answer to WCV problems. It assures a NO vote again if that’s what you might want!!
    You didn’t even address the safety issue of cars and the highway. The schools I’ve seen along highways have much better vision of oncoming traffic and are on flat ground. Plus are much farther off the highway. I would like to see the study that says the site South of the athletic field isn’t a worthy site. OH, sorry that is privy info. too, isn’t it?? Don’t know who you are, but I can be almost certain to what group you belong too. You always bring up the Menlo and Redfield old buildings. What about the present HS? Are you real proud of it? Willing to throw away $2million to put A/C and electrical work and still have an old facility? Then in a few yrs. we will need the athletic facilities closer to the high school, the the present HS will need to be torn down. Your plan is so obvious you must think the people are really dumb. That’s the plan isn’t it? Get those dummies to vote our way. Well, so far us dummies can see thru your transparent plans. NO, NO, NO to the site East of town. It is anything but the answer. I’m offended that you continue to promote it as such. Back to the alternative street. Big deal!!! They still have to pull out on the highway with limited vision and with hormones flowing. It won’t be the kids fault when something happens. If it passes on that site it will be on the backs of people like you promoting it. Leave the Menlo and Redfield schools out of things, please. They have been neglected and you should know that if you know so much about studies and alternative routes, etc.! So they are the reason for backsliding of education?? WHAT?? to copy your seemingly fruitless attempt at gaining attention! You’ve got to be kidding me for sure now! Buildings are the reason for backsliding of education! What a crock! You lost all your credibility there, not that you hadn’t already with your first sentence! So tell us about the backsliding of education, please. That’s a whole new topic I for one knew nothing about! And the teachers get a very large raise with this going on?? OH, sorry it’s the buildings fault! You and your’s with your blinders and only one way or the highway attitude are the true downfall of this district. So there’s already an alternative access road there huh? Who paid for that? Is that something that got done behind our backs? OH, sorry it probably was done at your groups expense. Surely, your idea wasn’t to have one there for a school was it? Getting the cart before the horse? Assuming people will follow anything that is thrown at them? I really don’t know what you’re talking about, but even if the road doesn’t belong or if it isn’t headed to school property, you can bet everyone in the district would be assessed a portion of the upkeep! Argue all you want. The site East of town is NOT the site for a new school. It is the site NOT to put a new school on. Pontificate all you want. People have your group figured out. Expect another NO result with that as the site. Please respond and let me know where I can find the study done on the site South of the athletic complex. As far as visitors finding it. What’s wrong with signs?? Coming North off the interstate a few signs would take you right there. Or heading South the same thing!! I’ll vote for an added expense for a few signs!! So keep posting with the type of info. you did, please!! It only reaffirms what the majority of us already know and feel!!

maisy on July 25, 2007 7:15 am

35. There are not enough exits for the lunchroom. Last year ceiling tiles fell down on the principal. Thank goodness she wasn’t injured, and a student didn’t have tiles fall on them. There is a smell to the Menlo building. Staff and students complain of headaches, allergies, asthma… but if they stop teaching in that building they feel better. Let’s not forget about handicapped student access. Every place in that building has steps. I’m sorry sat, but the Menlo building has many problems. Besides those problems how about the cost of transportation? Have you seen the busses roll into town? Ever stopped to wonder about the cost and what that money could be used for instead of gas?

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 7:17 am

36. hi

sat on July 25, 2007 7:42 am

37. 4 exits. 1. south up concrete steps. 2. north up concrete steps. 3. west through door of (non cooking) kitchen to outside exit. 4. through west door past furnace room to outside. Prior fire drills have been done from this lunchroom and all children out in less than 3 minutes. Ceiling tiles fell near, not on. Another example of non-maintenance. Should have been fixed. Did you go look? There are smells everywhere and as far as headaches, allergies and asthma, I know a lot of people that are not in the Menlo building complaining of these things. Yes, I know, it has steps. Best exercise kids and Teachers could get. That could have been handled with an elevator had it not been to Stuarts disadvantage. And transportation ho, hum. Still have to pick up the country/town kids in each town. We’re no going to eliminate that. Just excuses, excuses, lies, lies, and especially from the administration. If you don’t like where your child is going to school, I suggest taking them out of the district. I think most would get a better education somewhere else anyway.

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 12:11 pm

38. Same shit different day. You people need a transfusion. Pathetic excuses for avoiding the ultimate truth in all of this. It is just pure meanness, spite, bitterness and greed. Let’s keep it moving and see just how many families vacate the district. I’m sure you don’t care. You just have to win. You are all losers if you don’t compromise and grow up. This will be the same fight no matter what happens. I say, wait for the state to come in and tell you all just how it’s going to be and stuff that business down your closed minded throats. See how you like it when you really don’t have a choice.

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 12:14 pm

39. To pragmatist, you really have an attitude problem. Where do you get off telling anyone that they must have it their way or the highway? In case you didn’t read your own post, you are the poster child for this attitude. There is no bend in your rant. You and others like you are the ones who don’t really give a damn about anyone else, but the joy in denial of good buildings for ALL the kids in the district. You apparently have no conscience in any of this. Pity.

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 12:16 pm

40. PS, you thrive on causing this kind of crap, don’t you? Bet you sit around just waiting to strike once the school issue is raised. Bet you have speed dial to the bond buster. You should be ashamed, but again, no conscience.

Just Wondering on July 25, 2007 1:00 pm

41. Wow, “pragmatist” you have a large burr under your saddle! You have made your case against the east site very clear to the readers. Now, please take the time to make some alternate proposals. Since you are emphatic about voting “no” on the east site, you need to be just as emphatic about alternate sites using facts. (Are you so negative about that site because the old S-M school board bought that land prior to consolidation and since that was 7 years ago, you decided to find some other reason?)

    It appears that you are sold on the site where the City’s east pond is. If so, then the railroad crossing to the north (involving N. Madison) would have to be improved because there would be an increase in traffic from that direction. Of course, getting the railroad people to help out is like pulling teeth.

    There was a soil survey done at the site south of the soccer fields and the results showed that it is not suitable for building. What do you propose be done then?

    Please take the time to also explain how the proposed HS plan (that was voted down) could have been cheapened and downsized? You made that statement, so please, without hysterics, explain what could have been done.

    That plan allowed a classroom for each teacher that is currently on staff in the HS. Were you thinking that the number of rooms could be reduced? Were you thinking that the size of the rooms could be reduced? (State code specifies a minimum size) Do you feel that band and vocal should not have their own separate rooms? Do you feel that shop and voc tech should not have their own separate rooms? Do you feel that the kitchen and lunch room are too large? Do you feel that the gym was too big?

    Would the outer shell be like a metal building? Would the insides be one great hall with portable walls separating the rooms?
    (I apologize for going to extremes.) But when you say “cheapen” is that to mean the building looks cheap, too?

    Claims that the proposed building would have been bigger than Jefferson-Scranton’s HS were rubbish. J-S high school’s does not have a competition gym, only a practice gym, which in itself reduces the square footage.

    Now, regarding the $600,000 that was proposed for dirt work, a contractor in Menlo was contacted and he said the work could be done for about $100,000. Now, I don’t know how that figure was proposed, but remember, it was just an estimate. Yes, sometimes estimates can come in too low, but too often people panic without using common sense.

    It is also interesting how you managed to throw in the bit about the “teachers’ large raise”. So what’s the issue here? It appears that you have a beef about teacher pay. The % increase that the local teachers will get will not be putting them into the next higher tax bracket. Plus, you will have heard that the State is directing more $ towards teacher salaries in order to keep them in the state instead of moving elsewhere.

    If the amount that a teacher makes still makes you chafe, then I encourage you to become a teacher. From what I hear, there is a big need for teachers in science, math, foreign language, shop, etc.

    Now, let’s use common sense about the deterioration of the Menlo/Redfield buildings (this also applies to the other bloggers, beside “pragmatist”). Too many people accuse the District of purposefully ignoring the maintenance of these buildings with the intent of eventually building new and tearing down the old. It is easy to make the District the scapegoat when the accuser shows a lack of knowledge about the situation.

    The reported conditions are not “lies, lies, lies”. “sat” your comment about teachers and students getting good exercise by climbing the stairs is true, but Fire Codes disagree. Yes, there has never been a fire in the Menlo building requiring the quick exit of the students….we have been fortunate. But…what if there was a fire? Do you honestly think that the kids will calmly exit the building especially from the top floor or from the cafeteria? Little kids can trip and fall thus plugging up the escape route.

    Sure, the building suited our needs when we were that age, but the law has changed since then AND our society doesn’t blink twice when parents sue school districts. “sat”, it is laughable when you accuse the teachers of making the Menlo building a fire trap when they hang “their paper crap”. Are you suggesting that they have no decorations, or if they do, they must be fire proof?

    Now, have you ever thought about why our schools are in disrepair? You claim that the District hasn’t done enough when in actuality, the district cannot just go out and spend money “like drunken sailors”. They only have so much money set aside for building maintenance and many of these projects would require $$$ (which would probably require a bond issue to approve such an expenditure). Now, if I am wrong, then I apologize.

    How is the District at fault when a water pipe suddenly bursts? Or when a sewer line gets plugged? Was it the District’s fault when the support beam cracked in the Redfield gym? How about the discrepancies that date back before S-M and Dexfield joined?

    “sat” are you saying that the District was at fault because the ceiling tiles fell? Are you saying the District knew of the potential problem, but failed to do anything about it? I truly believe that you are not being realistic.

    There was some talk about busing. 75% (?) of the students in the Menlo building come from Stuart. So, logic would say that busing costs would be reduced if an elem. was in Stuart. At the same time, it was mentioned (prior to the most recent bond issue) that a district wide elem. in Dexter would actually increase the busing.

    “Pragmatist”, you really vented about the lack of safety for kids walking out to the proposed east site. You also talked about the walking trail. This is a sincere question, are you thinking that the walking trail would be on the shoulder of the highway?
    Is is possible that the sidewalk/walking trail would be north of the ditch that runs along the highway?

    You believe that the east site is too dangerous especially being along a highway. I can understand where you are coming from, but you allude, too often, to reckless teenage drivers pulling out into traffic. Granted, one accident would be one too many, but I truly feel you are going overboard on this one.

    One possible solution is to put flashing yellow lights along the highway to the east and west of the school entrance. In addition, the city of Stuart, along with the State, can mandate a 35 mph speed zone (25 mph during school hours) along that stretch.

    This would have to require more of a police presence during those times.

    These are just some of my thoughts and questions. I am just one person, I don’t speak for the whole community of Stuart, but I do speak for the betterment of our school district.

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 1:06 pm

42. 12:14 I hope you don’t bet too often, because you would lose every one of those bets you just made. I had nothing to do with the person hired. But I do feel the people who hired him had the right to do so. Why not pick on the Supt. or Tom Doud’s?? You sir/ma’am are the one with no bend. The reason I have no bend is because your way has been defeated 6 times. And the reasons I have given. Refute them in an objective manner. Qualitatively and quantitatively refute them!
    I challenge you too! No subjective because I stuff or we stuff or it’s what the elected officials want stuff. Refute them in your own words and thoughts. And just whom is for the kids when something has been defeated 6 times and you want to do it again?? I say get another site, realistic numbers and get started building. Or didn’t you read that in my post staring thru the red you were seeing. I haven’t been involved in any of this except to vote. I can clearly see what the grand plan is and don’t like it at all! So don’t call names when you are the one whom they fit!! Pity yourselves and compromise. Get ready for #7 to be defeated at that site.
    Then wring your hands even more, and blame everyone and anyone but yourselves. I have more conscience than you can imagine, that’s why I’m bringing this up now! Perhaps the site can be changed and a bond passed. With a repeat of the last one and the same site it is doomed for failure. And yes, I WILL work this time to see it fail. Let the state step in. There will be no more WCV. The compromise is to give up on using the same site. So I am compromising. Reverse logic yes but logic never the less. What is your compromise??? Thought so, don’t have one do you? Besides vote to pass something that YOU want!!

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 1:36 pm

43. Thanks just wondering. I appreciate everything you said without being called names. You’re right I do probably have a burr under my saddle. Why was the bid for the dirt work SOOO far off? And why hasn’t this been made public? No the location is the reason for my dislike, but I have to admit I didn’t like the way it was purchased at the time when that money could have gone in the general fund to benefit the whole district. I don’t assume the walking path will be right next to the highway, but I DO assume children will wander if they see something or get to horsing around. They’re just kids, I’m not blaming them for doing that. As far as the tracks being the major block for the east pond site. I would say they would have to be fixed by the time contractors and heavy equipment involved in the construction of a building were done using them. If that is the only hurdle then it’s not that big of one. I read all about the size and cheapening it up. I have to assume it can be done when the bid that was presented to us was at the very top end per sq/ft. of any project around. Why isn’t the supt. on top of this dirt work? and many other things? Or is his main objective to insult groups of people? I would very much like to see the results of the soil survey and the other site study published for the general public to carefully look at. I don’t feel my comments about pulling out on the highway are overdone at all. Your talking of a 35mph zone and 25mph zone during school hours makes it even more unrealistic of a site. There is considerable traffic on that highway as you know. Say in December a semi is coming West the sun in his eyes he pops over the hill and there is a line up of cars. He can’t see and an accident happens. That could be avoided at a different site. Same thing in the morning at certain times of year going East. Plus that would make what a mile or more of 35mph speed zone? Perfect speed trap. I didn’t point/counterpoint everything you said, sorry. I want a school built this goround. In Stuart, just not at that site!
    Petty of me, I don’t think so. I’m trying to give some cogent reasoning why I don’t think so! I don’t expect everyone to agree but 6 failures are enough. I will sit here and get called names go ahead they shed like water. My convictions are steadfast. If you want another failure go ahead and use the same site. Nothing I can do, but I can talk about it. I’m so sick of the bond buster thing too. I wasn’t a part of that, no way, no how. But like mentioned they had a right to do what they did. Get off it and cuss out the Doud’s who got tremendously personal. And the Supt. whom can’t seem to just do his job and do what the people wish without taking sides and opening his mouth uncontrollably. I agree with posters right after the vote or before I forget which. This district if very fortunate they didn’t have a lawsuit slapped on them for his actions comments and deeds. Let’s hear about those emails. They should be public property or is there executive privilege being claimed? Thanks for all the info. and comments Just Wondering. I’m guessing we kind of know who you are and you’re well respected by me if you are that person. One last point. As far as the raises. I saw the red ink. Bad Bad news on any budget especially one tax funded. Then I saw the overall raise in salaries more than covered the red ink. So that’s why that subject was brought up. NO I don’t wish to be a teacher.

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 2:06 pm

44. Pragmatist, you are contradicting your own words. The damaging negativity in this district is caused by people like you who won’t see anything but what they want to. There are people like that all over this world, and it makes no sense to beat ourselves up over you, who aren’t willing to use common sense. The issues here are grudges that won’t go away and everyone loses and don’t you see just how absolutely absurd it is to keep up with this montage of excuses when the real one is that you don’t want this school built at all? Costs go up all the time, and another bond issue is coming. It will take money away from the students’ educational needs if not productive in results. Your threats of no voting indicate that you could band together with others to defeat it again, and then you say you are just one person and not a member of the so called bond busters. Just what do you think you’re doing, anyway? Venting? Go ahead. Get it overwith and then if you have anything left, put it to good use and help to figure out a way to get something done for these kids. Get over yourself, and think of some way you could just help the situation. I don’t have any idea who you are and couldn’t care less, only that you make threats and it is utter nonsense to start this up again when it will do no one any good. “Just wondering” makes a lot of sense, and has tried to address your issues with facts and you fail to even admit you just might be wrong. With that kind of closed mindedness, nothing gets done and only deepens the divide. I believe that is what you truly want anyway. Right?

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 2:53 pm

45. 2:06 you couldn’t be more wrong. I will vote for a school at a different site and with reasonable figures in a heartbeat and work to get it passed. What I’m doing is actually trying to get this started early enough for a different site to be used in a plan and get a school built. If you don’t like that, then I, as you, really don’t care what you think. You have the audacity to say I won’t see anything but what I want to see. I didn’t proffer bond issues with the same site 6(six)times. You mention the word grudge. What grudge? I couldn’t care less whom you are either! The closed mindedness comes from people like you who are determined to silence people as myself who bring up issues. How many times do I have to say I wasn’t a part of the bond buster group. Believe what you will, I don’t care about that either. I WILL work against a bond issue involving the same site. I have NOT in the past, but am determined to this time. The board, Supt. and other powers that be won’t address the vote results. Go ahead andstick up for just wondering he made some excellent points. Could he happen to be wrong on some as well? Not in your preconceived thought process evidently! You don’t wish to discuss it you only wish to tear someone down whom doesn’t agree with you. I’m the bad person because I just can’t seem to agree with you, right? I’m sorry, I didn’t know you had all the answers. So tell me, why doesn’t a bond issue pass. Oh, it’s the grudges, right? It’s people like me who how dare we challenge any of your thoughts!! You couldn’t be more wrong. I want a new school and in Stuart and done NOW not later. But not at that site! And not at the figures that were thrown at us last time!! Please get over yourself and your self-righteousness!! Do something that will get a bond passed instead of running people down that don’t agree with you!! You’re the one dividing people when you won’t offer any solutions, but run down those that do. I’m not going to stand by this time and not try to get a different site and get a bond passed. You can say I’m talking all different directions, but actually I’m not. I will not vote for a bond at that site but will at another site that is reasonable and in Stuart. As an aside, I am not from Stuart. I’m not going to stand silent and accept figures as for an example the dirt work. How many other figures are that far off? You have no answers only time to use the same old rhetoric that we’ve all heard a hundred times before. Let’s hear some ideas from YOU! NOT involving the same site. To quote you “help to figure out a way to get something done for these kids”!! Let’s hear some. Not the same old stale ones that have failed. You don’t want to work together, YOU truly are the one who won’t bend. YOU truly are the one who won’t see anything but what they want too!! Do a self-introspective analysis of yourself. Turn the tables around. As mentioned, if this site won’t pass, let’s hear some ideas from YOU!! Jump down my throat all you want. I’m not perfect. I don’t say everything the exact way I want to say it or should say it. The bottom line is I want a school built in Stuart with this next bond issue. But not at the East site and not with the figures given last time. What’s YOUR bottom line? Build it at any cost on the predetermined site right??
    Thought so!! Seriously, let’s hear some alternatives from YOU, if it’s so easy for you to sit there and run someone else down. YOU tell us what will pass!! The East site won’t!!

what ?? on July 25, 2007 3:23 pm

46. To address pragmatist wish for a different site than the already WCV owned land, my question is where do YOU want to see it built??

sat on July 25, 2007 4:03 pm

47. Very inter-est-ing. Nobody is suggesting building where the old reservoir (Pond) was. It is three blocks south and clear over east where they dump trees. I look at the site straight south of football field and approximately 3 blocks west to eat. I never saw a report on the soil and since some homes used to be there can’t be too bad. I am not in favor of the new $$$ for teachers because I think it just encourages the crappy ones to stay and get by, and we can’t get rid of them without good reason. Now to address the 1:00 p.m. statement about the fire codes. I get copies of the fire marshalls report and my statement was not an accusation but directly from that report. It’s kind of like the need for an exhaust hood at Menlo, which has been in most reports, but the superintendent said it would be “cost prohibitive” but I didn’t see where he obtained any figures or estimates, just told this to Board and they accepted it. I would like to know how much it cost to open up the entrance to ground level so that meals can be delivered and how much the equipment and delivery costs are going to be. As far as the kids getting out in an orderly manner, you don’t give much credit to our little munchkins. The drill they had was totally without their knowledge ahead of time and they exited better the the high schoolers did during the more recent actual threat. $$$$ for projects? They borrowed 1/2 million against LOST/SILO taxes and that coupled with pay raises and who knows what, put the budget in the red. Hope the lost/silo is never voted out. If you are lacking for money in the maintenance budget, then readjust. That falls under health and safety of all. So far they have not considered the health and safety, why start now. Water pipe burst, I have no documentation, but something about pressure and a person supposed to be at site was not there to deter this. Tiles were loose after pipe burst, why not fix. Why have tiles? There is already a ceiling up there. Sewer lines get plugged everywhere and are cleaned out. Don’t try to think we are gullible enough to believe that only happens at the Menlo school. As for Redfield, I cannot comment. Was that building, that has been successfully disposed of, more of a wooden structure? Menlo is not! Now for the highway going past the school. Yeah, bad idea. I believe the school site is on the other side of Tiernans driveway, which would not make it accessible to the street up toward the church. Or are they going to make the city extend the 2nd street? They don’t do much for the citizens benefit. And flashing lights? Have you ever seen the number of vehicles that run, no speed, through the stop signs at Front and Division. Of course, all the stop signs are not placed correctly, and then the detour signs add to vision problems. They have been put directly in front of them and obstruct view farther up the road on division. And we want to trust the kids will be safe? Last, you forgot to add “for the betterment of our school district (in Stuart)” I would rather see our kids thinking of better education with excellent teachers than thinking they can’t learn without something new. When everyone is talking safety, I’m going to start pointing out a few things I see so get out you knife and fork. It might be kind of tough to chew.

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 4:21 pm

48. what? my 3:29pm post july 24th.

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 4:21 pm

49. or maisy’s sounds good too.

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 4:22 pm

50. what?? Where would you put it so it will pass?

Just a few comments.... on July 25, 2007 5:33 pm

51. 1. Why would you want to build the school south of the football field which would place it right next to Pelgas? Yes, the current land owned is near (if you call several blocks near) Pelgas but, if anything would happen and evacuation be required, the students could safely get away. If the building was right next to it on that land south of the FB field, you are taking a risk of the school burning/falling/blowing up if Pelgas did.

    2. There are many schools that are located next to highways and some on more highly trafficked roads. I believe East High is right off the interstate! Capital View Elementary is right off East 14th and I believe University (I’m not sure on this second road). And what about Valley just off I-235 and at the corner of 35th/Valley West Drive and Ashworth? In Indianola, the high school is right off highway 92. These are just 4 examples of many and all these roads have much, much more traffic than anything in Stuart combined. However, these schools and students are able to get around without getting run over. Why? Because the city uses traffic lights and school crossing guards.

    Oh, and I’ve never seen anyone run the stop sign in town that’s on the highway.

    3. Last spring, the state fire marshall closed the kitchen in Menlo because it was deemed dangerous and possible fire hazard. The fire marshall also decided it was necessary to come out to inspect the building for damage after the massive water leak. I’m sure something negative was told to the school board because I haven’t seen any of the reports the school got back, even after requests to see them.

    4. Sat, you cannot be serious about not increasing teacher pay. The reason we have crappy teachers is because all the good ones move away to where they can get adequately paid. What’s left is what we have. It’s just like with everything else in this world - If you want the best, you’re going to have to pay for it.

    Now, I’ve held my temper and put this in the nicest way possible (which was kind of difficult after reading the other posts). Let’s see if others, including Drama Queen Pragmatist, can be a little more civil too. (Eh.. I couldn’t resist.)

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 6:14 pm

52. just a few comments do you propose traffic lights and school crossing guards? It sounds like it! So it’s OK to play football, run track, have band, PE, etc. etal. close to Pelgas but not anything else?? I’m not sure we are talking the same ground. I’m talking South not East. I wish you would follow up on your requests for the fire marshall reports. I’m sure you know you are entitled to see them. Then post what they said if you would. I believe we all need to read and reread Maisys’ post. I believe she knows of what she speaks. Thanks for holding your temper you darling just a few comments! MUAH!! Love ya!!

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 6:16 pm

53. Isn’t he the sweetest thing??

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 6:58 pm

54. Prag, you are annoying.

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 7:12 pm

55. Pragmatist, I just want to say thank you for making my voting decision for me.

    Since you won’t vote for a school if it’s on the land that the district already owns, I won’t vote for it if it’s NOT on the land that the district already owns.

    Spiteful? Yes… abso-freaking-lutely.

    Thanks sweetie.

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 7:14 pm

56. Hey pragmatist, you should really change your name to antagonist.

what ?? on July 25, 2007 7:39 pm

57. Perhaps more information will help clarify why the suggested area south of the athletic fields is not an option. This area has been used for cement dumping in the past. When it was cleared it was still considered unsuitable for building because the land was disturbed.
    A little lesson in building sites might help enlighten inquiring minds. When considering a building site for a school, etc… the soil is tested for stability, among other things. This site was tested and failed. One reason also is that this area is a big drainage area for that part of Stuart. Smart people analize reports and continue to build on soil with sufficant compaction and proper drainage in mind. That leads us back to the land already owned by WCV School District.
    None of this information is top secret, but apparently there is now an opportunity for education.
    Talk to any senior citizen with a zest for life, and they will tell you that when you continue to ask questions and learn something every day, that is truly living. I think our senior citizens also have another character of living that we all need to embrace. That would be treating others with respect, especially when there is a difference of opinion. Wouldn’t it be great if our WCV kids would be known state wide for their respect to others.

pragmatist on July 25, 2007 7:52 pm

58. just a few comments(DR. DAVEY)—you said you would keep things secret and I was to play the opposite side. What happened? It’s over between us. You hussy! Your post revealed you too much! Couldn’t you have done better? Good Bye*Cry*.
    Hey!!! 7:12 Big Boy what’s shakin? You’re welcome hun!!! Call me babe!! DQP XOXOXOXO

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 8:07 pm

59. pragmatist, are you bipolar or is it just the multiple personalities needing their say?

orange peel on July 25, 2007 8:10 pm

60. So if pragmatist is an antagonist then Arnold is the PROtagonist right? I think pragmatist he/she/?? is funny and got some of you good!!
    he/she/?? has a lot of good ideas and makes some good points and some not so good. I happen to agree on the site. So I guess you can start calling me names now. If you are so thin-skinned, a lot of you should read your own posts and see if you would like them directed toward you. I’m from Stuart and want a new school but have serious concerns about the cost and the site. Have at me. I posted last time around and you need to remember Stuart had more NO votes last time then the time before. Let’s face it Tiernan wants to sell his ground for big bucks to the school. It’s no secret. First a school building, then an athletic complex on his ground, then what? Tear down the old HS that you want to put $2mil in? How many other major misfigures last time other than the dirt work? Why haven’t we heard about this? And what’s the story with the emails? I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but things aren’t smelling any better now than they did before!

anonymous on July 25, 2007 9:35 pm

61. what no one to insult now? 8:07 I’m bipolar and you should learn about a subject before you go talking about it. You disgust me. Pragmatist does the least insulting of almost anyone on here. The bulk of you just don’t want to hear what they have to say. Tiernan is just money grabbin. He knows the athletic complex or something will sooner or later be on his ground. The school–actually the taxpayers–will pay him a fortune for it. You won’t get any of my business Wells/Tiernan! And Just Wondering from earlier. I have a grudge on how the land was bought. So shoot me. All for kids, what a crock. Line my pockets taxpayers and I’ll lead you down the primrose path to my wealth sayeth Wambaugh, Tiernan, and a slew of others. Just follow me to higher taxes, with a Supt. and Board who have no idea of what’s goin on. Don’t pay any attention except to the one’s who stand to reap something from this, that’s what this is all about. All for the kids, I’m so sick of hearing that. $600,000+ for dirtwork and a local dozer company says $100,000 should do it. Wonder who was gonna pocket that nice little 1/2 million? Huh, Arnold?

Anonymous on July 25, 2007 9:50 pm

62. So who owns the land that pragmatist wants? Maybe pragmatist IS the owner of that land and is just trying to make an easy buck him/herself? Anyone ever think of that?

anonymous on July 26, 2007 6:50 am

63. 9:50 Tiernan, I didn’t think you lowered yourself to this level. You are way below this. What were the results of the school board election when you ran?? A nerve was hit or you wouldn’t be posting 9:50! And I have to say Pragmatist may just be right on a lot of things, just read Just a few comments’ post and try to think who that might be! That does sound like Arnold to me. Right down to the admitted temper! And he’s the one that needs to come out of the closet. Pragmatist tried to have some fun and got ran off evidently. The majority’s loss. 7:12 you a drag queen too? Well, my vote has been decided by you and your’s and it isn’t Yes.
    9:50 quit trying to change the subject about Tiernan! I mean, come on Eric a lot of us know what’s going on! Your insurance business won’t be getting any of my money either. And Todd Broman come on!! Did they put a gag order on you? I mean Just Wondering at 1:00pm is almost the same post and points you were making before. I just might call the Ombudsman today to get the facts on the emails. It should be public knowledge. If it isn’t, maybe a call to the Atty. Gen. office to see why it isn’t! I personally want to thank pragmatist for opening this up. It was going to sit here and be shoved down our throats at the last minute like always. That really p**ss*s me off when they think people are dumb. BUT, they want our support and money, by God!! For pragmatist who was too nice to come back at you, just a few comments. Kiss mine, A&&wipe!!

wondering on July 26, 2007 7:23 am

64. I’ve read all of pragmatist’s posts. I’m wondering if more than one person was using that name. But then I think the original would have said something. I think we should have a pragmatist appreciation cup of coffee. They opened this up early and I’m glad they did. I can see right now things were going on that we didn’t know about at the school and with the bidding, etc. with the last bond issue. You yes for anything people are in for a battle. Hold your own, you can with insults but not facts. But I’m another NO voter until it’s proven to me there is absolutely no other site and it can’t be done a lot cheaper per square foot. As far as someone mentioning Pelgas blowing up and blowing the school building away. Huh? I took pragmatists idea to be South of the athletic complex not just South of the football field. Is the bowling alley going to move? How about the water tower it would go in Armageddon too! A South wind would start the whole town on fire!! Here again, blow the school away? I think maybe a little bit extreme. Exaggerate and try best as you can to make your point. Like 6:50 said, we aren’t stupid, there’s just a group of you that think we are or want us to be.

maisy on July 26, 2007 9:39 am

65. Thank you for the big kiss, pragmatist. I’ve been unable to read the comments for some reason. So I’m borrowing a computer. (I was wondering if maybe Mr. Westre decided to block me.) Anyway, I am on neither side here. I simply want to know what an alternative sight may be. I know all about the history of the east side sight, but it is land owned by the district. I also understand the concerns over the pocketbook of some. I really just want what is best for the students. I think a new high school is a step in the right direction. I really don’t believe that if the state comes in it will be the end of WCV. The state will just tell us that Menlo is closing and this is what you are going to do to house those students. I fear for our district. I fear the Menlo building and am therefore having my student bussed to Dexter in the fall. I love the staff in Menlo, but I want my child’s safety first.

Anonymous on July 26, 2007 3:17 pm

66. 6:50, I am 9:50 and last I knew I was not Eric Tiernan. I’m not even male! I couldn’t pick Eric Tiernan out of a crowd because I do not know, nor have ever met the man.

    Sorry to burst your conspiracy theory bubble.

Anonymous on July 26, 2007 3:21 pm

67. I really wish I had the money to build a new school myself. Stuart Academy? Sounds spiffy.

    I’m sick of all this drama between the 4 towns. A lot of other people are too. I know several families who are open enrolling out of the district because of it. From what I understand, that’s $5000 loss per student for this district. 10 kids = $50,000. Unfortunately, I know there are a lot more than 10 kids leaving WCV. That’s a lot of money.

anonymous on July 26, 2007 4:57 pm

68. 3:17 the bubble isn’t burst. It just grows with time as things become more clear. My bubble isn’t burst at all, I’ve been around here since dirt. Feel fortunate you don’t know him. 3:21 as far as drama, I have a feeling we haven’t seen anything yet. Maybe the state does need to step in.

orange peel on July 26, 2007 6:18 pm

69. I see no more posts from pragmatist. Either they got run off or made mad. If made mad and they are now quiet, that probably just set their jaw and made them more set in their opinion. At least when they were talking you had an idea of what they were thinking. I swear I wonder sometimes about some people in Stuart or let’s say the Yes for anything group. All you do is agitate and stir and get things fired up with your name calling. If I had to guess people reading these posts are probably a lot more sympathetic towards pragmatist than they are you!! As always have at me!!

Tod Broman on July 26, 2007 9:08 pm

70. Anonymous 6:50–”Just Wondering” was me as you figured out. I had a self-imposed gag order because I was one of the few who were brave/stupid enough to use my name when blogging. I got tired of having my professionalism and credibility taken to task by those who evidently don’t know me that well.

    I was advised to “consider the source” when an anonymous blogger chastised me regarding me viewpoints or my job as a teacher because those people felt secure behind the “anonymous” tag.

    OK, anonymous 6:50, you recognized my comments from earlier blogs. I stand by them and I feel that they are just as pertinent now as back then.

    For those of you who have a beef with Eric Tiernan, I greatly disagree with you. You make him out to be a crook and I strongly believe he is out to improve Stuart and the WCV school district. BIG DEAL he has land between All Saints and the east site. BIG DEAL he has bought lots in town with the idea to put up new housing (to attract people to move here). From my dealings with him, I have found him to be a truly sincere person. Too many of you are trashing his name without really getting to know him. You are going on hearsay.

    The idea that his land will be used for an athletic complex is laughable. Besides, there would be enough room on the land that is already bought for athletic fields (that was in the proposed plans of bond issues past). However, moving the athletic complex is not on the current plans.

    Now, “sat”, you really have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to teachers. It is apparent that you feel that there are some crappy teachers on staff and you wish they would leave. Change that thought….you wish you could FIRE them. You don’t like the knowledge that getting rid of a teacher is not an easy thing to do in this day and age. Have you ever thought that not everyone would agree with your tainted assessment as to who is crappy or not?

    The teaching profession would be on extremely shaky ground if a teacher could lose their job when a disgruntled parent, student, etc. makes a complaint about them. Can you imagine the type of complaints that would come in? Some would be so outrageous, but according to your wishes, they would be enough ammunition to get someone fired.

    Why don’t YOU either: a) become a teacher or b) run for school board. Let me clue you in…just because you are on the school board, don’t think you will be able to make every one of your wishes come true. You will find that there are a lot of constraints out there.

    OK, folks, now please take the time to sit back, calm down and intelligently discuss our differences without name-calling. Yes, we need to be unified, however, in my opinion, there are people out there who feel it is their way or the highway.

    See, I presented my viewpoints without cussing or name-calling. If you don’t like what I wrote, then “tough”. If you call me names or question my character, remember, your anonymous tag just shows you are a coward (sorry for the name calling!).

sat on July 26, 2007 10:16 pm

71. Hi Toddy boy. You’ve been here a long time. Some like you, some don’t. I don’t believe parents making a complaint about a teacher just because they dont like them would be grounds for dismissal. I think their record in the classroom should be the basis. I have heard teachers complain that students come into their class not knowing what they should because the teacher the year before did not get it taught to them. I come from a long line of dedicated teachers. Teachers that were not satisfied if the child did not know how to pronounce a word or spell it, not satisfied if the child could not add or subtract using no pencils, chalk, or fingers, but learning to use their heads.They were not satisfied if the student couldnt speak comfortably in front of the class to give a report. Their solution was to spend extra time with the child and offer much encouragement. We have teachers and have had teachers and you know it, that do the bare minimum because they get a pretty good wage for nine months of employment. Things are tightening up now and elementary particularly is being given the stress test. Government funds are at risk if these children do not meet the standards in reading and math. Is that really any way to teach a child in these critical years? Tell me that it is not stressful for the teachers when they need to meet the “quota”. We have teachers, teachers helpers, reading helpers, math helpers and probably some helpers I haven’t heard of. So this warrants higher wages? I don’t mind paying for quality, but not pay without good results from random testing, not the standard testing. Sorry, I said before and I say again, the good ones who are dedicated stay to teach the children. The ones who leave for higher wages are leaving for higher wages not the joy of teaching. As I said you’ve been here a long time and some say a little intimidating in the classroom. How do you rate yourself as a teacher. Have you grown with the times, or do you teach the same way as when you started. Do you have students leave your class who could excell in teaching or chose a profession and succeed with the knowledge gained in your classroom. I’m not thinking after college. Do they graduate from high school with enough knowledge to be able to succeed if college were not an option. I had ancestors who had learned enough by 8th grade to go out into the world and make a fortune with their own companies. Now I am tired and have a lot of work to do tomorrow, so good night.

Anonymous on July 26, 2007 10:26 pm

72. So good teachers that stay here despite the low pay are the only worthy ones in you eyes. Interesting. Do you not feel that teachers should be able to make a livable wage just like every other employee in the country? You have no idea how hard it is to live on a teacher’s salary. Why do you think so many have to get summer jobs?

    In Europe, teaching is one of the highest paid professions after doctors and lawyers. Why isn’t it the same here? Do you think that Europeans get a bad education because their teachers are paid more? You are wrong if you do. Students in UK for example know much more than students of comparable age here.

    If you come from a long line of teachers, then you know they deserve to be paid.

anonymous on July 27, 2007 6:30 am

73. Good to hear from you Tod! I don’t think many have a beef with you. Unfortunately, I have to agree that some of your colleagues do just go thru the motions and are in it for the short(er) work year. But, there’s nothing YOU can do about that. The good ones are badly underpaid and the poor ones are badly overpaid in my opinion. That’s all I have to say about teachers. I have no desire to be one. As far as a liveable wage, I’m afraid there are a lot who don’t make that. But, that’s another subject. To see this type of reaction this early is expected I guess, but I think pragmatist did a good deed getting things opened up. My beef with the Supt. and school board is they don’t keep the public informed and it seems the board meetings are all a formality. The decisions have already been made. If, in fact, the board is just agreeing with the board pres. and Supt. then they need to be replaced. I agree with previous posts made before, that a board meeting with serious debateable subjects can’t be adequately done in less than an hr. or sometimes less than a 1/2 hr. Just like the comment about the dirt work. That should have been common knowledge to people. Why didn’t the admin. say ‘hey, we found $.5mil. that may lower the cost of a new building and are going to be looking for more of the same’?
    That to me would be great PR, instead their’s the emails, the temper, the bad treatment of people at board meetings, etc., etc. I’m afraid I don’t share your thoughts about Tiernan Tod. Know him too well. That’s all I’m going to say. I hope and pray they can come up with a different site, because I truly do agree with pragmatist on that issue. I really can’t see a bond issue passing with that as the site. Plus if the $ figure is even close to the last one it is doomed. The economy has taken it on the chin the last few days and there really isn’t much in the future to make it turn for the better that I can see. Not going to get political. End of my rant. Thanks.

sat on July 27, 2007 9:19 am

74. 10:26 Don’t speed read, you miss things. No, not all who stay. Some stay because of family ties. Does that make a good teacher? I believe a lot of other employees in the country make less, the same or more than some teachers. I would have been happy, at entry level, to have made in 9 months what teachers do and as far as summer months, why not work? Most other employees work 12 months a year and get 2 - 4 weeks off. Let’s put teachers on the clock for an hourly wage. Where do teachers salaries come from? I believe that alone gives anyone a right to question the teaching profession. In Europe, the concentration is purely academic. In the U.S. you cannot deny that sports are the main concern. If as much emphasis was put on academic competition as there are sports, we would be unbeatable. Just look how students barely have to make the grade in order to participate and God forbid we make any higher requirements. When you read the very first post, I would like to get back to that. Finally on the new website for the school they have the board minutes. On April 9 2007 the is the Amended Current budget figures. In the area of NON instructional program the figure changed from $544,467.00 to $4,225,000.00, borrowed from the LOST/SILO for construction projects. I am thinking this was for Redfield school and am hoping that the taxpayers never vote to stop those taxes, which is a possibility. A final word on the teachers. In every profession, there is the problem with quality work. Many are now judging an employee by the quantity of work and in order to meet the demands of employers, we are seeing in the products we purchase some inferiorities and in our day to day contacts with businesses substandard service. Many times with the need for speed, mistakes are made, and have to be redone, sometimes, many times over and over again. This is where I object very much to government coming in and saying schools have to make a “quota” or may lose funds. To me this is blackmail in the worst sense. I don’t think we need big brother watching, just parents concerned and caring that their children are learning. I am not concerned at all with the cost of quality as long as it produces a superior product. When I see evidence of lack of GOOD education that tells me we have missed the boat. Examples you say? Young adults who can’t figure without using their fingers, who can’t spell, and especially those who do not listen, read deeply and learn. There is nothing more irritating in the workplace than to have to repeatedly go over the policy of how to perform the job or service with the employer, because they don’t comprehend what they should have learned in school. This is not a few, but many.

anonymous on July 27, 2007 10:37 am

75. I have to agree with the downward spiral in the ability of students when they graduate. Most can’t balance a checkbook, make change, or as mentioned comprehend what they just read. Spelling is atrocious in many cases. These kids need to be held back until minimal standards are met. For the life of me, I don’t know how they slip thru the cracks for 13 yrs. without someone not knowing. I’m not saying all or even the majority are like that but even if say 20% are, that’s 20% too many!
    When our daughter was in school I had a problem with letting them use calculators. What are you learning about math using calculators? Manipulating #’s in your head is a great exercise for the brain in my opinion. Now the computer has taken over. How many reports, assignments, etc. are done by cut,copy,paste? There are a lot of obscure sites that I’m sure teachers can’t follow. It would be impossible to search each one. I realize a teacher should be able to identify if a student were bringing in work that doesn’t match their true abilities, but I’m betting it happens a lot. Is there a minimal standard test that is given to students before they can graduate? I don’t know that answer. I think there should be. Written and oral. I’m not blaming Tod at all. My daughter to this day will tell anyone who listens he made his students mind and presented the material for them to learn. She for one appreciated that. But other teachers just accepted the talk, horseplay, etc. and let it slide. She went thru college and did great, but her best friend failed. Her best friend slid thru high school and probably shouldn’t have been allowed to graduate. She couldn’t spell I know for sure, having seen some letters. But she could talk a good game about anything but academics. Social and athletic skills are great, but they aren’t going to replace academic knowledge and self-discipline. Social skills are very necessary but have to be mixed with knowledge or it’s just party and small talk your way thru life. Athletics are great too and I urge everyone to participate, but too much emphasis IS placed on them. As far as the next bond issue, I’m afraid I will not vote in favor of one if it is a repeat of the last. The board and Supt. have to quit being so stubborn and realize the voters are trying to tell them something. If they think numbers of voters will decline as it did at P-L when they finally got theirs’ passed, I truly believe they are dead wrong. I think just the opposite will happen. Turnout will stay the same or grow. Talk I hear is just what I mentioned. Throw me the same bone and I will throw it back at you. A different site is essential in getting it passed. I have to agree with those saying that. Is there a grudge factor involved with that site? I would say a HUGE one! Does that make us small?
    No smaller than those who bought it and took that money out of the general fund to run a school with when it was badly needed. And also no smaller than this Supt. and board who won’t consider anything else!! So I guess use that site, get another defeat, then bad mouth everyone. That has a large part right there, the bad mouthing and name calling. I’m from Stuart and I’m ashamed to say so some times. It’s up to the Board and Supt. to sell this and they aren’t doing their job when it comes to that.

Weekly Recap : The Good Egg Gazette on July 27, 2007 11:06 am

76. [...] Weekly Recap [...]

Tod Broman on July 27, 2007 11:20 am

77. Dear “sat”- I haven’t been called “Toddy” for a long time. My departed Mom was famous for calling me that—whether she was in a good or bad mood!

    The following statement/questions from your post bothered me because it sounds like you feel that I am not up to snuff as a teacher:

    “As I said you’ve been here a long time and some say a little intimidating in the classroom. How do you rate yourself as a teacher. Have you grown with the times, or do you teach the same way as when you started. Do you have students leave your class who could excell in teaching or chose a profession and succeed with the knowledge gained in your classroom. I’m not thinking after college. Do they graduate from high school with enough knowledge to be able to succeed if college were not an option.”

    Since you didn’t know me when I first started teaching in 1977 in SE Iowa, let me clue you in. For the past 30 years, I have changed. I have adjusted my teaching styles to incorporate more cooperative learning and differentiation (adjust to the level of the student). I am definitely not the same teacher that started in 1977 or 1981 when I came to Stuart. I have evolved.

    Your comment about me being intimidating…that is not new. What makes me intimidating in the eyes of the student? Is it because I expect good behavior? Is it because I expect the students to get their work done? Is it because I maintain a “teacher-student” relationship and not a “buddy-buddy” one?

    Did those intimidated students ever mention that I compliment those students for good work and efforts? Did they ever mention that I inject humor in my classroom, many times at my expense?

    Did those students ever mention that I truly believe in what I teach, that biology is an essential part of education?

    Now, the part about whether my students will/have succeeded after leaving my class. Yes, there are those who claim that I did nothing for their education…mainly they butted heads with me and didn’t agree with my beliefs/philosophies. However, I have heard from many students who felt that I gave them a good head start and that they remembered what I taught them in class. If they enter the workforce after school, I doubt their biological education would help them with diesel mechanics, running a cash register, etc. But I hope that they would remember the high expectations that I had of them as a person and that would carry over to whatever they would do.

    You can listen to whomever you want, but I have heard more positives than negatives over the years. That tells me that I have been doing a good job.

    Am I going to sit back and rest on my laurels? No. I constantly think about how I can change things so the old saying, “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” does not apply to me.

    Am I perfect? Heck no! Far from it, but I believe that I am a good teacher and the ancient beliefs that were taught to me by my parents and teachers are just as relevant now as they were back then. I have been accused by other bloggers (supposedly ex-students) that I feel like I am a “god” on the staff. Far from it. I just feel comfortable with what I believe.

    Call me ancient, but I am not to going apologize for who I am or what I believe.

WCV Parent on July 27, 2007 2:24 pm

78. I don’t know Tod well personally, but he taught my child in High School and one thing I can say about Tod Broman is that he is absolutely passionate about his profession and his students. No doubt he is imperfect, as we all are, and I was NO big fan of biology when I was in school, but I am deeply grateful for the *few* public school teachers who show up everyday and give their best. Tod has earned my respect completely in his role as a high school teacher. Thank you, Tod. Keep up the good work.

jw on July 27, 2007 3:00 pm

79. interesting discussion. Its sometimes hard to know what we’ve learned in the classroom and what we’ve learned on our own. I can say that I really did not learn all that much in science classes during my time spent in classrooms. I think there is something fundamentally wrong with the way science is taught and its really a bigger problem than the teachers so Im not really placing blame there. Its only been in the last couple years that I’ve realized how little I know about science, so I’ve taken steps to teach myself. One thing I did learn in Mr. B’s class room is conflict/resolution. I did not attend a formal 4 year college. At 22 I entered into the corp world as a software developer. Everything I’ve needed to know to be successful I had to learn myself. This is not the case for everyone, but this is the way I did it. Luckily, the tech sector is one industry you can break into with pure talent and guts and does not always require a degree. In fact, a lot of tech companies out there flinch at a computer science degree because those students supposedly have a harder time thinking outside the lines and give in to easily to the “that cannot be done” mentality. Broman is an easy target because hes disagreeable. He has a different view on respect exchange than lots of others and I think sometimes he forgets what being 16-18 was like. Some kids can’t deal with authority. I was one of them, and still am. Some of the most brilliant minds in history have this exact flaw/strength (depending how you look at it)i.e. John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Hunter Thompson, Steve Jobs, Kerouac, etc.. The idea that you should do something just because someone tells you to seems ridiculous to people like this. That mentality will either wind you up in prison or make you very successful. The responsibility of a the person like Mr. B is to see this in a student, this quality of anti-authority and be sensitive to it, nurture it, and give that person perspective that they can use in their favor as not to go down that wrong path and use their disdain for authority to help them, not hurt them. Easier said than done, I know. Maybe one reason I didn’t learn a whole lot in science class was because I spent a majority of the time figuring out new ways to push Tod’s buttons. I would push, he would take the bait and I would get to spend the rest of the time in solace within comfortable confines of the old ISS rooms. It was there that I could be alone with my thoughts and no one was telling me what I could and could not do without any explanation of why I could or could not do those things. Plus, it was always a real pleasure to get to visit with Deb Dougherty for those few moments in the afternoon. Shes a sweetheart of a person and has the patience of a saint. The very valuable lesson that I did learn from Mr. Broman, which he did not intend to teach is this: some people will be very easy to get along with and very agreeable. It will almost be inspiring to work with these kinds of people and the work produced will reflect that. Others, will not be. They will stonewall you at every turn. You personalities will clash and no matter what happens or what you do they will always be very difficult to work with, and in turn, that will be reflected in the product, whatever that product may be. But in real life, (not high school, Im talking about the part that matters) there is no quiet ISS room. There is no Deb Dougherty to sneak you candy or brownies. You have to plug on and figure out how to resolve your differences using compromise and diplomacy so that whatever you are working on together does not suffer due to a personality conflict. I dont hate T.B., hell - he would probably even be sorta cool if he would take a proverbial bong hit every now and again. I would like to run shots of Patrón tequila (top shelf pure agave only for me) with him some sweltering summer night just to see what happens. At least he isn’t some bumbling fool. He has real ideas and thoughts, and this is something I’ve only realized because of this blog. Before this, he was just one more thing that was wrong with public education. Maybe he still is, but now I don’t see it as being his fault, but more like that Computer Science major that can’t see the bigger picture while the self taught engineer is doing the things the CS guy says cannot be done. It is absolutely a forgivable situation. I’ve fallen prey to Broman bashing. It’s so tempting and easy to do with all the thousands of miles of fiber optics between us. But its all a little too easy. It wasn’t even satisfying like I thought it should be. I sorta admire his participation here but rarely agree. You gotta hand it to him, in a way. Alot of people have had their asses fired for less. So the point is that sometimes you learn something way more valuable in a classroom than whats outlined in the curriculum. Things that stay with you a lot longer than the architecture of an atom or molecular biology. Real lessons that you will use on a daily basis for the rest of your existence. Far more important And - If you really want to understand a rough outline of science and how we got to where we are today - check out Bill Bryson’s A Short HIstory of nearly everything

anonymous on July 27, 2007 6:35 pm

80. Call me out of it, but when is the next bond issue vote? Or when is the earliest it can be?

Anonymous on July 28, 2007 8:05 pm

81. I just bet people who never heard of Stuart Iowa and stumbled onto this site think they have discovered another planet. What a crock of shit! Not the site, just these people who are so damned self absorbed that they think they will change anybody’s mind. There is no common sense in Stuart. There is only hope that new,young ones like the new owner of ruby’s can outplay, outlast and outwit these old greedy farts.

anonymous on July 29, 2007 7:19 am

82. 8:05 You are so right the people who are so damned self absorbed that they think they will change anybody’s mind. That means the Board and Supt. and the POWERRRRRRS of Stuart, right? Since it has been defeated so many times before, THEY are the ones who fit that description. YOU must be one of them!! From another planet and a crock of s*it!! Full of yourself and your grandeur of a panacea named Stuart.

anonymous on July 29, 2007 7:49 am

83. 8:05 I guess I’m a greedy old fart. I’ve probably wet-nursed little crock’s of shit like you most of my life. Given you a good education or the opportunity for one and now you have a better life than I do. This is a great site. Nates’. The site for the school is just as bad as this is good. So wait us out to die and find yourself without the base to pay for all your wants and desires. The East site sucks!! The voters have told the stupid Supt. and Board that several times now. They are the crocks of shit along with you. So get off my and us old greedy farts’ backs! We’re getting tired of carrying and supporting you!! Common sense you say? Isn’t 6 defeats enough to tell some people they need to change something? Just blame everyone but the ones who should be!! I guess that’s what us greedy old farts raised you to be. Whining, sniffling, name callers. Our time and money was wasted.

JYS on July 29, 2007 3:25 pm

84. Well I tried to read what everyone posted.
    But I didn’t see this mentioned, and I may have missed it, was “Thursday, April 26, 2007

    Governor Culver Signs Teacher Pay Increase Legislation

    (Des Moines) Today, Governor Chet Culver signed Senate File 277, increasing teacher pay by $5000 dollars over the next two schools years. An issue that was at the centerpiece of Governor Culver’s campaign, this legislation will move Iowa from 43rd in the nation for teacher pay to 25th.

    SF 277 will provide an additional $145 million for teacher salaries over two years. Included in the legislation was $20 million in professional development, giving our teachers additional training and ensuring they stay current on the latest teaching practices.”
    http://www.governor.iowa.gov/news/2007/04/26_1.php

    So I was thinking some of the teacher pay increase reflected this legislation.

    What would become of the old highschool? Will it be sold as is? Or tore down?
    I would hate to see a vacant white elephant just sitting there.
    Many schools in Des Moines sit on major streets or highways. Yes, they have accidents, but anytime the need for speed or not paying attention can cause an accident. The anhydrous would be my concern. In reality, isn’t the school now too close to the tanks?
    Yes, the school needs some new buildings.
    Are there other school districts out there like ours? If there are, how have they handled their issues like this? Or are we a unique situation here in WCV, with 4 towns, and 3-4 counties, (4 if you count Madison).
    Problem solving solutions are what we need.

anonymous on July 29, 2007 6:20 pm

85. the past bond issue had, and don’t quote me, but around $1.9million going into the present HS building mostly for A/C and electrical work. It would surely get torn down sooner that later. As far as the NH3, the prevailing wind is from the South, I believe, so a site South of the athletic complex makes sense to me. And it would probably be just as far from the NH3 or further than the HS is now. I believe some input from Pelgas as to what they have to do as far as safety would open some eyes. They aren’t setting there without being closely monitored, you can be assured of that. As far as the traffic. Do we really want a 35mph speed limit and 25mph during school hrs. that far? Along with lights and crossing guards?? I wonder what % of students in DM drive to school and aren’t there alternate routes to take them away from the major street? For example, go 4 directions or at least a couple. Not just out onto the major street. Also, I believe there are lots of Metro and school busses that run for those students.

JYS on July 29, 2007 7:33 pm

86. Just as a note. There are many students that drive to school in Des Moines. I went to Lincoln High School and it is located on SW 9th street. It is the only High School for the South Side, so there is some distance traveling for some students. There are other roads, but they all lead to major roads such as Park Ave, SW 9th or Thomas Beck Road.
    Thanks for the info. The prevailing wind was an interesting concept. Hadn’t thought of that.
    Thanks

anonymous on July 29, 2007 8:40 pm

87. 7:33 no problem. The plan was for the current HS to become an elementary. I forgot to mention that. Thanks for your info. on Lincoln.

anonymous on July 30, 2007 6:31 am

88. Wow, three posts and no name calling!! That was pleasant!! I too can’t remember when another bond can be brought to a vote. Is it 6 months or 9 months to wait between votes? Hope someone can answer. Thanks.

Anonymous on July 30, 2007 12:22 pm

89. People here are just looking for excuses not to build. Never heard a thing about speeding or traffic last go round. It’s always something, and it will always be something. The district is as strong as it’s makeup of adults who can solve problems together. That about tells us where we are and where we will go. Not a pretty picture. Might as well flush the money down the toilets into the sewer that is in about the same shape as some of the buildings. Hell of a deal, huh?

orange peel on July 30, 2007 6:26 pm

90. Maybe we should have been thinking about speeding and traffic last time. Instead it became name calling and hate groups. The leaders are elected to represent the wants and desires of the people. They clearly aren’t doing that as per the results of the last votes. I’m from Stuart and it doesn’t seem like we can get along with ourselves. How do we expect to get along with anyone else? From the city council to the police dept., it’s always something. I couldn’t disagree more that people are just looking for an excuse not to build. I really think what has been said is correct. A different site and realistic numbers and there will be a bond issue passed. I truly believe that. The sewer is another question that was asked about last vote and not answered. Will there be separate sewer for the school if the East site somehow does pass? It would be nice to know some of these things ahead of time. Most of us aren’t into nodding our heads and wagging our tails with our tongues hanging out in agreement without the facts. This Board and Supt. seem to think we should regale in their not giving us any facts or information. Intstead we get generalities,if lucky,and those seem to often be incorrect.

Anonymous on July 30, 2007 10:33 pm

91. to the people that think that tod broman isn’t a good teacher, you are morons! I do not use any of the biology in my everyday job. I am a self employed contractor. He did help me a lot with organizational skills which has helped me become successful. I may of not totally liked him as a person but I respect him highly, so his creditability as a teacher should not be doubted. He is also the only teacher with balls enough to speak his mind about school issues.

anonymous on July 31, 2007 6:53 am

92. 10:33 I agree with everything you said. Just wish you didn’t have to call names. Tod has been upfront and I for one appreciate that. I truly believe the ones running him down are the students who didn’t want his disciplined classroom and no-nonsense approach. I don’t think teachers are there to be students buddies! I don’t agree with all he has to say about the school, but he has the right to say it. He for sure is the only one with the kahoonas to put his name out there and comment. I’ve probably learned more from him than anyone else off these blogs or in the papers or flyers from the school. I believe a great many students realize after the fact that ole Mr. Broman was just pretty OK!!

Anonymous on July 31, 2007 9:56 am

93. The situation with the school board is so odd, I don’t understand why it is so secret, people aren’t allowed to participate in the board’s discussions at meetings and the minutes aren’t thorough enough to understand just what the situation is. It seems almost sinister, in some reapects like they are trying to hide something. Seem odd for a public school board? Can anything be done about it except failure to pass a bond issue? I think that is a legitimate question that just demands an honest answer as to why there is no information coming out of this board.

Anonymous on July 31, 2007 10:00 am

94. If the buck stops at the superintendent, then he should be fired. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior in a board that is supposed to represent the citizens of the district.If the buck doesn’t stop there, then someone higher up should be on the ball to figure this thing out. We are spending good money after bad by going forward with another bond issue identical to the last one. If that is not the case, then why not present what is? To spring the facts upon the public at the last minute has not worked in the past, and to spend money on another vote is irresponsible as hell.

anonymous on July 31, 2007 2:14 pm

95. The school board meetings are entirely strange to me. As someone mentioned it seems as if everything has already been determined. How else can you have a meeting of substance in under a 1/2 hr. sometimes? I think it will take a group to confront the board, but the board pres. has control of the meeting. I, myself, blame it on this Supt. He should be gone and here he still is with a little raise but a nice add on to his retirement benefit. Tax deferred or free, if I’m not mistaken. I think ther